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PMDD doesn’t just change moods, it can change the entire rhythm of a relationship. When the luteal phase hits, couples often slide into the same argument pattern, then spend the “good weeks” trying to forget it ever happened. We wanted something more useful than replaying the past, so we brought in Monica Tanner, a couples coach who helps partners spot the pattern, name it, and choose a different step.

We get practical about luteal phase communication, including why both partners are part of the dynamic and how unmet needs quietly turn into avoidance, bitterness, and distance. Monica explains how couples can build awareness of their “dance,” share what they’re capable of during different cycle phases, and negotiate real solutions that protect connection without forcing either person to pretend they feel fine.

Then we go straight into intimacy. Monica breaks down three pillars for a healthier sex life: emotional safety, understanding spontaneous versus responsive desire, and bringing back playful energy when things feel heavy or “roommate-like.” We also talk about widening the menu so intimacy isn’t limited to one definition of sex, and how simple check-ins can reduce insecurity and spiraling after a sexual moment.

If you’re navigating a PMDD relationship, dating with PMDD, or trying to rebuild closeness after a long dry spell, this one is packed with tools you can use immediately. Subscribe, share this with a partner or friend who needs it, and leave a review to help more couples find support. What part of the monthly “dance” do you want to change first?

Transcript

Why Cycle Phases Strain Couples

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So today I have a special guest with us. We have Monica Tanner who's going to come on and really talk about some of the ways that we can get through communication during the Luteal phase and pretty much all phases of our cycle. And then also about navigating intimacy, which is something that if you know that the communication in your relationship, your PMDD relationship is off, then it's going to really seep into that intimacy that you'll have with your partner. So welcome to the show, Monica. Can you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do. Yeah, thank you, Dr.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Oz. It's it's a pleasure to be here with you. My name is Monica Tanner. As you said, I've been married for 23 years. We have four children. Two are grown, one is married, and then two are still at home. So we have lived, are living a full busy life. I work full-time coaching couples through intimate relationship issues. And let's see, what else? I wrote a book called Bad Marriage Advice. It's an Amazon bestseller. And I have a podcast called Secrets of Happily Abra.

Meet Monica Tanner

SPEAKER_00 1:07

So that's a little bit about me. I love that. I love that we can pretty highlight, pretty much highlight some of the positive things about marriage and relationships. I know a lot of times on here I'm talking about the downfall of that and kind of trying to get to the other side where you have that consistency of really getting what it is that you're wanting, kind of like ebbing towards, okay, this is the goal that we want. I always ask my private clients, where do you see yourself going? Because if we talk so much about the past, you can kind of get stuck there. So a lot of times when a lot of individuals have gone to talk therapy and they're talking about the same problems and the conflicts that they're having again and again and again, you find yourself feeling those same emotions as if you're back in the argument and you can't see yourself on the other side. And that's where there's thoughts of, you know, breaking up or maybe we shouldn't be together, or all of these things. And so I'm kind of wanting to know from you, what do you think kind of helps you stay in that positive mindset towards the goal and the vision of having that happily ever after? Because I'm pretty sure if we're in a relationship, that's the goal that we want to have. And we just don't want to feel like having premenstrual dysphoria disorder is stopping us and robbing us from actually having that.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yeah, absolutely. Well, for one, I'm not a therapist, so I'm not, I don't go back in the past and do any talk therapy at all. I'm a coach and the the predominant, I'm certified in relational life therapy and sex therapy, which is confusing because I'm certified in all kinds of therapies, but I'm not a therapist. Mostly we talk about, we we talk about the dynamic, the dance that the couple gets in. And so that's what's really interesting about your show is because it's such a specific period of time that couples deal with. And so perhaps they have a dance routine that they do in in other periods of time. And then when they're dealing with this particular um part of their cycle, they have a specific dance or dynamic that they do. And it's so important to be aware of that. That's the first thing I do with a couple is I basically diagnose their dance. I get a picture of what their arguments look like, the way they deal with each other, what their losing strategies are, those types of things. And once they become aware of their dance moves, then they have a choice. They can change the dance. But I always say you can't see the label from the inside of the bottle. So a lot of times couples are locked into a dynamic that they can't see because they're in it. And so they need that outside perspective to show them, well, this is what you're doing to draw him into the dance, and then this is this is what he's doing to draw you into the dance. And you're getting locked in, and it happens, we don't, we're not aware of it. And so that's that awareness piece. That's the first thing we do. Then we talk a lot a lot about in our child work and our adaptations and why we do certain the certain moves that we do. A lot of it can have to do with the cycle and you know, but trying to minimize different symptoms of of that. And then um, so that would be the second phase of RLT. And then the third stage of RLT is teaching skills. Like this is where you can insert a different dance move, but you've got to learn the skills, right? And I always try to remind my clients that you're gonna be bad at it before you're good at it. It's like learning a sport or an instrument or anything else you want to get good at. You've got to be clunky and bad at it, you've got to practice it until you're good at it.

Spot The Argument Dance

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Uh that you reference the dance because when you have permetal dysphoric disorder, there's seven to 10 to 14 days even that you're not yourself, that you're experiencing those PMDD symptoms. So whether it's conscious or subconscious, you are going through a dance. You do shift and change in certain phases of your cycle. And I think, you know, I've suffered with it for over 20 years now. And I think in the beginning, you never really wanted to admit to your partner that you were acting different or that you were different because it felt like this kind of shameful thing. It's like, no, I'm not different. I'm the same and I'm this. And, you know, your partner on the outside looking in can see, like you said, that outside perspective. They can say, no, babe, you're actually different during these phases. And a lot of times I've had the partners even come to me and say, I think that there's something going on. And they've been the ones to highlight the PMDD because it's like, we'll be fine. And then this phase of their cycle, we're not. But because they're in it, because they're suffering with the symptoms, it's really hard for them to see that they're the ones that's really acting differently. So I think that awareness is really important because when you stop denying that you're doing the dance, like you said, that self-awareness, then you can get to the point of addressing it and not trying to not do the dance. I love that you call it a dance because it's not a shameful thing. It's not anything that you should try to fix and shift because I know there's been times where I've, well, I'm just gonna be the same way. I'm gonna try really hard to ignore my symptoms, pretend that they're not there and all of these things. And that denial, it just makes you feel even more like it almost makes your symptoms amplify a little bit because they want you to pay attention to them. They want you to slow down, they want you to have those conversations about what's triggering you. But if you're denying it, then you never really get to that point. So I love that you call it something positive, which is a dance. So, do you think it is beneficial for both partners to know what that dance is and try to navigate it in a sense of, okay, I'm aware that you're like this during this. This is actually the tool that you need to do because this is what it looks like, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the more understanding you can have of each other and what goes on in your inner worlds, your inner workings, physically, mentally, you know, spiritually, and everything, the better team you're going to make, right? The better dance you're gonna do together.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yeah. And I think one of the misconceptions is just the person that has premenstrual dysphoric disorder for my audience is the only one that's going through the dance. But what I really recognize is the partners in response to being in a relationship with someone with PMDD, they go through shifts and changes. Is it due to their symptoms? Do they have a disorder? No, but they do react to their partner going through those symptoms. And maybe um when you go into PMDD, maybe you pull back a little bit, like you pull back the affection. There's certain triggers, you don't like loud noises, you don't want to be as social. You kind of get, you have a lot of fatigue. And so you have all of these things that you're combating that could be the complete opposite of your personality. So your partner may connect with you, which I've seen is partners connect with you when you're not experiencing PMDD symptoms, but then when you are, they haven't found a way to connect with you during that part of your dance, so-called. So it's not that, and then that partner in turns begins to like avoid. Okay, so for those two weeks of the month that you're experiencing the PMDD symptoms, they go do other things to try to avoid having that version of you instead of embracing that part of the dance and seeing how they can get their needs met, get that love, that attention, that validation, even though they're in that part of the dance. And I think that's when we get into the intimacy part of it. It is how can I intimately connect to my partner when they're in their PMDD, when they're in the luteal phase, and when they're not in their luteal phase and they're in, you know, maybe their ovulation or their menstruation cycle. So it's kind of requiring the partner to dance in two different ways when they're not internally experiencing symptoms.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's what life is about. It's it's learning how to recore graph the dance in different stages, phases, and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

And I think I love that you normalize it. And it's not like, oh, it's this difficult, hard thing that I have to do. Like, oh, I'm with someone with PMDD. So now I have to do this dance with you because I've had couples be on sessions and you know, the partner says, Well, I it's not my fault. I don't have PMDD. Like you have PMDD. It's almost like they're expecting their partner to put the responsibility on them because they're the ones that have PMDD. Like I shouldn't have to carry the burden of it because there's this bitterness and resentment. And so when I really dig to see where that's coming from, it really all stems from unmet needs. And a lot of those unmet needs come from a lack of intimacy. I found that partners are less likely to be supportive if they're not getting their needs for connection and intimacy met. So then when they get in that phase of the cycle where their partner's experiencing PMDD, they're not as supportive. So do you find that intimacy is kind of affected by whether that individual is getting their needs met or not in the relationship or whether they're feeling seen and validated and in things that they have going on?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Yeah. I mean, I believe so strongly that in a healthy, strong marriage, we teach each other how to treat us, right? And so if we have needs, desires, or longings that are going unmet, we need to learn how to skillfully express that to our partner. And it's a constant negotiation. That is the dance, right? So yeah, you may have different needs, desires in the different phases. You might have different needs and desires, and your partner, you know, might have the same needs and desires. So it's important to both speak up about what's happening with you, what you're able or and capable to give in the different parts of that cycle, and then come up with solutions, right? Your partner may need something that you're not capable of giving during that part of your cycle. And so, what are some other outlets? Maybe they can go to the gym with their friends more often or go play pickleball, or you know, how can they get those needs for connection, attachment, and intimacy met, even if you're not capable of doing it in the same way during the full cycle?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

So, being that you've been married for so long, I have a lot of my audience, some are married and some are single and dating. What do you think are some of the things that they can look for as far as choosing a life partner? What are some skills that you can say these are the things that you should look out for when you're dating, especially with someone that you know that you're gonna have to be doing this dance with? What are some qualities or some traits or some things that they would look for in a partner?

How PMDD Impacts Both Partners

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Yeah. Well, so I'm I'm assuming you're talking about the woman who's looking for a partner. So uh either way, whether you're looking for a female partner or a male partner, you want to find somebody who is willing to do the dance with you. I mean, it's funny when my son called me and told me he had met the girl he was gonna marry, the first question I asked is, have you had a disagreement? So you want to see how they handle because you're different, because you're so different in the beginning stage of marriage, you've got the your hormones and pheromones that are doing the heavy lifting, and you're like, what could possibly go wrong? I love this person, I love everything about them, right? And you're overlooking a lot of your differences because you're like, oh, it's so great. But once you get married or in a long-term committed relationship with this person, those differences might start to be annoying to you, right? So you want to know what is it like to disagree with this person? What is it like when our differences come to the forefront? You know, can we navigate or negotiate these things together? Are they gonna stand up for their needs, right? You you you do want to find a partner who's like, hey, listen, I realize you're having a hard time right now, um, but here's what I would like to see happen. You know, you you don't want them to just be like, oh, it's fine, and then avoid you or, you know, do something that you don't like. I mean, I think communication, honesty, being able to stand up for yourself, all those are just really important qualities to look for in somebody that you're gonna potentially spend your life with.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

And I know for a lot of individuals in my audience who are dating, they have this fear about telling the person that they're dating are seriously in a relationship with that I have PMDD and this is what it looks like. Number one, nobody really knows what it is. So then if they start Googling it, it's probably this scary thing. Yeah, they're just like, what is that? And so they have that fear. So when you said speak up for yourself and kind of say what it is that you need in the relationship, they know that they're gonna need a partner that's gonna be able to do this dance with them during every single month. Like it's not even a situation where they have to have an argument and then they have to do the dance. It's like it's guaranteed every month we're gonna be doing this dance because I'm gonna be doing the PMDD dance. So I know that it is.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Your partner understands what that's like, and even be able to point it out. Like, listen, I am in my PMDD stage right now. So this is what it looks like, right? So this is what it looks like to be with me when I'm feeling this way. And this is what it feels like to be with me when it's the off cycle, right? And so really pointing that out to the partner, like knowing what you're gonna get. Like my husband and I, we always laugh because they'll there'll be something that comes up. Like, I don't make treats very often. So I I we have this joke. My husband's like, Man, I wish you'd make cookies every once in a while. And we had the conversation we were dating. He used to have girls that would bring cookies and bake goods to his apartment all the time. And I remember saying, Do you like that? Because I I not that girl, right? And so he was always like, No, no, I like you, right? And so we got married, and whenever he like brings up, like, man, if you just would make some cookies more often or something, I'm like, you knew what I was when you picked me up, right? So that's the phrase that I remind him, I didn't hide that from you. Like I made it very clear that I was not the type of girl that was constantly in the kitchen doing bake goods. If he wanted that, he should have found that, right? And so, yeah, you never want to get to not that we're not growing and evolving and changing all the time, but you never want to get to a place where your partner feels like you withheld information that was important from them, right? So, you know, when you get to the hard parts of the marriage, you want to be able to say, I I pointed this out to you, you knew what this was, right? And so, you know, that that type of honesty and forthrightness is gonna be really important. You don't want to trick somebody into marrying you, and then all of a sudden they're like, oh my gosh, I had no idea. What is this thing? And you're like, Yeah, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

And I think it's a delicacy, especially when you love someone, you care about them, you really want to be with them, a delicacy to what am I willing to compromise on? I may not cook dinner. If you don't like cooking, like I have a client, she doesn't really like to cook, but there's certain days of the week that she agreed to do it. Like, okay, on Sunday dinners, I'll do Sunday dinners. But during the week, we'll either meal prep or you will figure it out, you know, order out or certain things. So there's kind of that dance that they had to do because she couldn't just come in and say, I'm not gonna feed you, and then have the expectation that he's gonna be like, I'll sign up for that when he knows he likes to eat. So it's kind of like not negating things that are really like, if she would have turned into a baker and all of a sudden every you know day she's in the kitchen making stuff from scratch and all the things because you know they get it from their moms or their grandmas and they want to have women like, oh, my grandma used to do this and my mom used to do this, so they want to marry someone that's the same, but she would have become resentful. So I think what happens is when you don't speak up for yourself and you compromise outside of what it is that you know that you really desire to do, even for that person, eventually over time you get bitter and resentful about it, and then and then you get upset with them or you treat them differently, and they don't understand because they're like, you've been doing it this whole time. Why all of a sudden do you have an issue with it? Why is it coming up now when we're talking about it and coaching or counseling or therapy because you've been doing it all this time? But I feel like there's always this enough is enough. I'm tired of this. I can't continue to do this. And a lot of times it's months, weeks, years later because they didn't really take the time to feel brave enough to speak up. So, what do you think is some of the things or some of the reasons why people don't speak up and find it that they really need, you know, and or what they're willing to do and what they're not willing to do.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Yeah, I think there's all kinds of reasons people don't speak up. Some people are very non-confrontational, they think that it's better and they just don't know how, or they don't have the skills, or they never saw it modeled. So that's one reason why people don't stand up for themselves. Some people are afraid of the reaction they're gonna get, some people are very controlling as far as how other people see them. And so they're not very forthcoming with different things because they they're they're trying to manage. Like, am I gonna be liked? You know, am I gonna be accepted? So fear is a big reason, discomfort is a big reason. I have one of my children, most of us are very outspoken and very assertive, you know. And one of my children, she just doesn't do anything uncomfortable. She does not want to text her coach, she does not want to, you know, ask for an extension or whatever it needs to happen. She's just very shy and quiet. And, you know, speaking, speaking to somebody feels uncomfortable for her, so she doesn't do it. So I do worry about her sometimes. I'm like, you gotta stand up for yourself, you've got to be really honest, you gotta ask for the things that you want because nobody's walking around just handing things out, right? And so, so yeah, I mean, you've got to learn to get uncomfortable sometimes or or just learn a new skill, right? Like, like speaking up for yourself with love and power is such an important skill, but it's uncomfortable for most of us.

Dating With PMDD And Radical Honesty

SPEAKER_00 18:09

So we have to learn how to do it and we have to be willing to be bad at it before we can be good at it. I think one of the things that me and my partner like to do when it comes to talking about things that could potentially be uncomfortable because it's something that we both know that we need to create space for. That's the one thing that we recognize. It's not something that we can just throw into the mix of the day, you know, like if he's driving on his way to work and just bringing up a really heavy topic right before he goes in the office. And then he's like, because he'll overthink it. You know, he'll kind of be like, he doesn't have the space and time to address it, but then I just said it and then he'll go to work and be thinking, well, what does she mean by that? You know what I mean? So we kind of had to consciously say we're gonna have these conversations that are talking about our needs or talking about something where we need a longer period of time, we'd have to create space for it. Um, so we do like walk and talks, like we'll go on a walk because we find that it's better. If we have space and time, we don't have to worry about coming back and getting this with the kids or going to do something for work, or we have another pressing thing, consciously creating that space and time and doing it intentionally on a weekly basis. Because I feel like for individuals who have busy schedules and they have a lot going on, you could easily have weeks and weeks and weeks of built-up things that you just not said, and you get on autopilot. And I know for individuals who have PMDD, you know, they're they're holding in a lot and they kind of feel like a burden sometimes because they're emotionally spiraling more and they feel it and they have all of these thoughts and and things and triggers and stuff. And it's like, okay, well, I don't want to bring it up to my partner because last time I did it caused an argument. I feel like just canceling it out is not the answer. It's creating a better environment for you to do that because cognitively you can tell your brain, okay, we're not gonna talk about this right now, whether on the way to work or what or whatever, but we have a set time or we have a space and time that we're gonna talk about it this weekend. You know, then your brain can stop spiraling on every single time you think about it. It's like I have to say something, I have to say something. And then by the time that you do, it spills out with anger and bitterness and rage and all of these things because you've been holding it in for so long. Yeah, emotions don't go away.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

They just went if they get suppressed, they you know, come out sideways. That yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah, I mean, if I teach a a skill called contracting, which I think is really um helpful for couples, and it's just I love what you said about having a regular check-in time. I walking with my husband is one of my favorite things to do. But I always tell my couples, especially when it comes to intimacy, you should be having like a sex talk Tuesday, like have an appointment on the calendar where you're checking in about the important topics in your marriage. For most of my couples, it's it's intimacy. But yeah, I if you have things that you want to talk about at a different time, like, hey, listen, I noticed um, you know, this pattern keeps coming up. So I'd love to chat with you about it. Is now a good time, right? And that keeps you from like bombarding your partner when they just came in from a stressful day of work or if they're on their way to work or something like that. You just check in, you say, listen, you give them a little inkling of what you want to talk about, and you say, you know, I've I've been thinking about this. Is now a good time to talk, or can we come up with a time in the next couple of days? And that way you're not ruminating on it either. You have a set time. You're like, okay, you know, let my partner come in, change clothes, get something to eat, like kind of wipe off the day, and then they'll be available to give me their undivided attention.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

I love that. I love that. And I love that communication script. And and I always say when when you give examples of that, like however it sounds natural to you, but getting across that point is is amazing. So going into what you were talking about with intimacy, what would you say to a couple who has struggled with intimacy so long where they're kind of like roommates at this point? Like it's become normalized. I see that a lot with my clients where you know they've gone months, months and months, almost Year, years, and then they just they just got conditioned to not do it, you know, they're overfunctioning in other areas to compensate, like, oh, we're really good with the kids, or we're really good with sharing, you know, the bills and the chores and the da-da-da-da-da. And intimacy is so far gone, and it's been so far gone for so long that they both kind of accepted that I guess this is how it's just gonna be, you know, and so it's kind of like to bring it up when it's been gone for so long. How do you kind of reignite it? Because it's not really just about the sex itself, it's about there's an aspect of their relationship that they've both just lost hope on.

Scheduling Hard Talks That Work

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah. I mean, so important. I just recorded a podcast, it'll be out next week on my my show. That's really about to me, I think there are three really important components of a healthy threat sex life. And so you have to look at each of these three components. The first one is emotional safety, the right context. Are you creating conditions for intimacy? Meaning, does do both partners feel safe? Now, an example is if you're constantly criticizing your partner, how they look, their weight, how they deal with the kids, you're coming home to a messy house or whatever. You know, if you're constantly criticizing your partner, they're not gonna feel emotionally safe to like completely be vulnerable and disrobe and you know, share this experience with you. So you've got to consider like, do we have emotional safety? Have we created a safe space where we can be ourselves, where we can be accepting that that is a I think of intimacy, sexual intimacy as a place that we go, not necessarily a thing that we do. A that broadens the menu of it's not just one thing is sex, but it's a place that we can go to be together, to connect, to really just be taken care of. If that means, you know, halfway undressing and having your partner play with your hair, then that's a sexual encounter, right? It's like, what do you need to feel cared for in this moment? So that's what I mean by creating the context around emotional safety is being able to say, you know what, I'm not in the mood for penis and vagina sex right now, but maybe if you play with my hair for a little while and then we could have some mutual masturbation or whatever that looks like for you, you know, really being able to ask for what you need and know that you're in a safe location, in a safe space where your partner's gonna not go off and mopey, be grumpy and upset and feel rejected. So emotional safety is really important. Two, understanding the desire difference. Now, this is so important and so misunderstood. Typically, in any relationship, you're gonna have someone with a spontaneous sexual desire and somebody with a responsive sexual desire. Now, this is by divine design. If you had two people that were together with a spontaneous sex drive, you would literally get nothing done. It would like be like, let's have sex all the time, let's ignore all of our responsibilities and just get at it, right? So two people with spontaneous desire is not a good combination. But then if you have two people with a responsive drive, then you're really like not ever connecting in that way because for a responsive desire type, desire has to be, it's like a warm-up period. You have to know what creates desire, and you have to be willing to put a little bit of time and effort in to like closing out the tabs. I say mental tabs, right? Like on my computer, I have all these tabs open. I am the responsive desire type in my relationship. And I can't get like into sexual intimacy if I'm thinking about 1200 things that need to be accomplished today. So help me close out my tabs, understand my bridges to desire. For me, it's fun and playfulness and laughter, right? Like I need to be relaxed, I need to be having fun, I need to know that I can come here and be with you, and you're just gonna accept me, even if I'm in a fight with my best friend, and you know, the kids burnt something down today, and right, like I need to know that I can come here and just be loved. So, so understanding desire difference, creating that context. And then third, is that playful energy? Sex is playful, it requires us to not take life so seriously. Because if you think about it, silly things happen during sex all the time. Somebody bumps their heads, somebody farts, somebody like it's very vulnerable. And so if you can't tap into that playful, imperfect, human-to-human energy, you're gonna have a hard time. So those three things I think need to be in place if you're wanting to rekindle that intimacy. And I would say start with the third one is the easiest. Like, see if you can tap into that playful energy. Watch a comedian who talks about marriage or send each other silly memes, send a flirty text in the middle of the day. See if you can't tap into that fun playfulness, like, hey, it's just me. I'm imperfect, you're imperfect. We're just doing this life as imperfectly as we possibly can, right? Like that's the type of energy that's gonna make you want to fall into each other's arms.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Love that you said the third one first, because I think that really will break the ice. Sometimes it can get really serious if they haven't had intimacy for a long time. It's like this this wall has been built up, you know? And so if you're kind of playful about it in a way that is specific to your partner, if you're thinking back to the times where you're just thinking about their personality and how they like to have fun and kind of like just, you know, tapping them on the butt or something, or just just doing something that ignites their body being responsive to you in a playful way, but then also showing them that you're accepting of them in that intimate way where I'm I'm open with you. It's kind of opening the door to something versus, oh, we got to sit down and have this really hard conversation about why we haven't had sex and I have to explain why I haven't been, you know, if there's this competition that keeps coming up where hey, I initiated last time. Usually you don't ever initiate it with me. You know, when they finally do have a conversation about it, it's a competition thing. And it's not really about that, it's about desiring to be close. And a lot of times, if one person wants to be close, the other person wants to be close too, but they just don't know how to come together and say it in a way where they're not blaming and shaming and criticizing each other. So I love opening it up and just being playful. And then going back to the first one you said, I think it's so important for my audience to hear that you can have moments of intimacy without it ending up being sex, where it's where it's penis and vagina, like you said, or vagina, vagina, penis. Whatever, whatever it is. Right, right. Um they think if if it's not intercourse, then we didn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Right, right. It has to be a mutually pleasurable experience. And penis and vagina sex doesn't have to be the only thing on the menu. There can be, there's so many ways you can be sexual, whether that means just laying next to each other together and just like enjoying the feeling of being aroused, like that's okay. Like I have a lot of couples who are like, I cannot start anything because if my partner gets aroused, then I have to finish it. And then they feel like they've lost their agency, right? And so I'm like, you've got to widen the menu of what's included in a sexual interaction that could just be being aroused. Nobody's gonna die from being completely aroused. But I also don't think you have to go to bed hungry. Like there are so many different ways to have a release that doesn't require penis and vagina sex. You can, you can masturbate, you can do oral, you can lay there and rub your like rub your partner's neck while or thigh while they pleasure themselves. Like there's so many things that are included in this sexual experience that doesn't have to be, okay, I started something, now I've got to just lay out and let them take it from me. You know, it's it's different, but you've got to establish that, you've got to create that.

Rebuilding Intimacy With Safety And Play

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Yeah. I love that where it can look different for two different people. So I had something that my partner said actually to me a couple weeks ago. Um, he was like shaving like the next morning, and then he just came out of the bathroom and he was like, Were you satisfied last night? And I was just, it came out of nowhere. I was like half asleep. I was like, What? What's going on? Because it's getting ready earlier than me. He's like, Were you satisfied? Like it was on his mind. And I think I was so glad that he asked the question versus the next morning, he's going off spiraling in his mind, wondering. And I think we need to normalize having those conversations, even if it's not as direct as that. But sometimes people can get insecure in their mind of thinking, like, I know I had a good time, I enjoyed myself. But like if the person didn't give that kind of mutual, you know, or you didn't, you know, get that kind of confirmation, I think normalized making sure that your partner was satisfied when in moments that you are, because then when I was like, yes for you, he was like, absolutely, but I just wanted to make sure that you were good. And I'm like, no, I wasn't. But it but I like that he opened up and had that conversation and felt emotionally safe enough to do that versus assuming, because you can, I think a lot of times you can get in your head about it, you know, if you're just going off of getting the confirmation from yourself, like kind of like, oh, well, last time they did this and they didn't do this this time and did it, you know what I mean? And it's so programmed versus just opening up and having that communication and just asking, I think can get rid of a lot of the the spiraling, the spiraling and the insecurities that can happen in your mind when it comes to making sure that it is a mutual experience as far as sex is and intimacy is concerned.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Yeah. So I am so grateful that you are here to kind of talk about you some of the things. So tell me about your book because I definitely gonna put the link in the show notes. I want everybody to because I know I also have couples that are already married, you know, and they already are going through things and they just want to make it better while they're navigating being in a PMDD relationship. So, what are some of the things that you have laid out in the book that kind of helps people in their relationship?

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Yeah, so the book is kind of it's meant to be just like I'm trying to make you smile. Like I hope that those who have been married for a while could it's it's meant to be like a beginner's guide and a cautionary tale. So, like I wrote it for my son who was getting married, and I knew everyone was gonna bombard him with what they thought is good marriage advice. And so I just kind of wanted to set the record straight. Like, these are all things that my husband and I heard when we got married almost 24 years ago. You know, the the through line of the book is if it engenders lazy communication, then it's not good advice. Modern marriage, especially, requires really, really good communication skills. So that's what it's about. It's about about bad marriage advice. But I hope that couples who have been married for a long time can pick it up and be like, oh my gosh, we totally do that, right? Here's a better so for every it has 15 marriage myths or pieces of advice that people most often get when they get married. And it tells you why it's bad advice and then something you can do better. So it's teaching these relational communication skills, how to ask for what you want, how to how to repair after conflict, how to one of the pieces of advice is learn how to compromise. I think compromise is so lazy. That's I give a little and you give a little until we meet in the middle and neither of us gets what we want. Compromise is like the worst, right? What I'd rather you do is get really clear about what do you value and what does my partner value. And then you put all of that information out on the table. You come up with solutions that are even better than either of you could have come up on your own. Because you put your two heads together and because you're different, you've got so many more resources, right? And so, yeah, that's the book. It's bad marriage advice. You can find it on Amazon or anywhere where books are sold.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

I love that. And I love that you're a coach. Coaching is my love. It's what I did before counseling because it's so, it's giving actionable tools. And I think so many times, like you said, we were talking earlier, where you're just talking about something, you're talking about something, and then you're left with this open wound. But what you're able to do is like, okay, I see where you are, I see where you want to go. Let's get clear on where you want to go, and then let me give you tools on how to get there. And it's as simple as that. And I love that you're doing that for your clients. And I'm just gonna put your information down there, but I really appreciate you being here and sharing those little nuggets. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

So great to meet you.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

So great to meet you too.